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Tuesday, April 14, 2015

What`s Your Take on this CS Lewis quote about the soul?

Question:

Hi Rick. I was looking up a quote often credited to CS Lewis...the one that reads, "You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." But upon a Google search, I found this link: thomasthurman.org/body It states that the quote is a slightly altered version of one found in the noted book. It then goes on to state that such a quote doesn't align with Scripture for the reasons stated within the link. What's your take on this? More-so the non-Biblical assertion?

Answer:


Thanks for your question about Lewis. Yes, it appears that the quote (from what i can determine) is not authentic Lewis. The clever couplet sounds like Lewis, which is how the attribution must have started. However, the slight change was also necessary to make it sound "Lewisian" because it required a change to sound genuinely orthodox - which Lewis was.

The change I'm referring to is that in the popular version attributed to Lewis, it leaves out the one word: "temporarily." This appears to be the original quote:

Abbot Zerchi smiled thinly. You don't have a soul, Doctor. You are a soul. You have a body, temporarily.

The theological problem with the quote in this version, is that Christians have always believed in resurrection. Not just a metaphorical resurrection of the soul into a heavenly existence, either. No, the surprising facet of Christian teaching about eschatology (the study of "last things") is that we believe that there will be a resurrection of the body. In fact, Jesus' own experience of being raised physically from the dead was taught over and over again by the early church as the model and harbinger of the fate of everyone who dies in him. (Romans 6:4,5; Act 23:6; 24:15)

So the website is correct to note that the quote as it was ORIGINALLY written by Walter Miller in Canticle for Liebowitz is not technically orthodox, for with the one word "temporarily" it posits a view of the afterlife where we die and the flesh is permanently left and we go to a disembodied heaven where we float as incorporeal spirits or mists forever. This is NOT the Christian hope.

The Christian hope is that when we die, we may go to "be with the Lord" but that this is only intermediate. In the end, the Lord will go to be with us! That intermediate state of "sleep" in the Lord, is what is temporary, Scripture teaches. What is permanent is the restoration of the earth, when the "sons of God" will be revealed in glorious new resurrection bodies, enfleshed as before, but now, incorruptible. See 1 Cor 15). So the website is correct - the quote with the word "temporarily" undermines or denies the hope of the resurrection of the body.See this post for a full response on what happens to Christians after death:


However, if we delete the word "temporarily" from the quote, it then reflects the truth that our essential self, is not material, but rather immaterial. When we think we HAVE a soul, but we ARE a body, we begin to slide into the view of naturalism, which reduces our whole being to the physical. In this view, we are chemical reactions and atoms - that is what we are ESSENTIALLY - and if we have a soul, it only emerges out of this biology, it is not independent of it. Thus the quote (modified and attributed to Lewis) helpfully contradicts this thinking. Your primary self is NOT physical, but immaterial, spiritual and non-corporeal.

This essential, spiritual self is attached to a body, and operates in one (and will again after death in a NEW body), just as information is attached to ink and paper or to tiny lights on an LED screen. But the screen or the paper is not what is primary. They are secondary. The INFORMATION is primary. However, the information always requires a vehicle of transmission - and just like that, Jesus taught that God's design is that the human soul be permanently carried in a body.

To the extent that the modified quote gets us to see that our essential self transcends our biology, and the atoms and chemicals that make up our body, it is a helpful corrective to the pull of naturalistic philosophy. When you add the word "temporarily" however, the quote slides a bit into Greek dualism, denies the essential goodness of the created physical world and sees the ideal future as a place where the earth (and bodies) are destroyed - whereas Christian orthodoxy sees the ideal future as a place where the earth and bodies are restored.

Compare Catholic and Protestant exorcism

Question:

What are some key differences in the way the protestant church performs exorcisms compared the catholic rituals? Is their way right or wrong in some ways?

Answer:


The key difference is in the level of ritual and pre-scripted liturgy which defines the Catholic rite, and a much less formal and unscripted nature of Protestant exorcism. There is much that is similar in how Protestants and Catholics go about exorcising a demon once a person has been identified as being “demonized” (a better word than “possessed” to translate the Biblical term, ‘diamonidzomia’). Both use scripture, both (often) call for the demon to identify itself (though many Protestants feel the less interaction with the demon the better), both command the demon directly by the name and authority of Christ to depart the afflicted person. Both often call for the preparation of the Exorcist in times of confession and prayer and sometimes fasting (Mark 9:29, see footnote). Both usually encourage the Exorcist to have an assistant or helpers present to establish the power of Christ in the gathered church at the time of prayer (Matthew 18:20).

The Catholic rite has been defined by the Roman Church over time and involves invocations, prayers, creeds and responsive readings. You can find an example of the elaborate and lengthy rite online here:

http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/english/p01975b.htm

The strength of the Catholic rite is that by it’s ritual it diminishes any sense in the Exorcist that they work under their own power or authority. Their total dependence on the power of Christ is explicitly stated in the given formula, and by the very act of repeating a formula, the Exorcist doesn’t put any stock in his own eloquence or special ability to make a devil comply. But this is also it's weakness, since a formula may also mean that a person may think the script is magical somehow, and the Exorcist may be challenging Satan directly when they have no personal relationship with Christ, and thus are not functioning with the indwelling Spirit as their power and authority. The Bible tells of a time when someone reduced exorcism to a simple formula of “the right words” but without personal power through Christ, the results were disastrous. (Acts 19:13-16)

Having read the Catholic rite I would add that most of it’s scripted prayers are beautiful, and biblical, relying on the authority of Christ and not the worthiness of the pray-er. For example:

I command you, unclean spirit, whoever you are, along with all your minions now attacking this servant of God, by the mysteries of the incarnation, passion, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ, by the descent of the Holy Spirit, by the coming of our Lord for judgment, that you tell me by some sign your name, and the day and hour of your departure. I command you, moreover, to obey me to the letter, I who am a minister of God despite my unworthiness; nor shall you be emboldened to harm in any way this creature of God, or the bystanders, or any of their possessions.

The only real problem I would have with any of this is that some of the prayers contain what I see as inherently problematic in all Catholic theology and that is a dependence on the power, merit, and authority of Mary, the Apostles and dead Saints. Christ drove out demons by his Word alone, and Christ's name was enough authority for his Apostles, surely it should be enough for all who are priests in His Kingdom.

There is no standard Protestant formula, which again is a strength and weakness. The strength is that a person praying for a demonized individual must not think that “magic words” make the devil comply. The devil is subordinate to Christ alone – who defeated him in a great and mysterious victory on the cross (Col 2:15). He is not subordinate to you or I, EXCEPT as we are IN Christ by faith and are clothed by Christ (Gal 3:27) and have his mind and authority (1 Cor 2:13) as his Priests (1 Peter 2:9) by that same trusting, humble dependence.

So even though Christ’s power is the important thing, the state of the Exorcist’s faith matters deeply. The very nature of demonic activity implies that spiritual warfare is real, and is just that: warfare! While God is almighty, his servants do still experience loss and resistance from a real enemy who can win battles (1 Thess 2:18). Thus, the equipping of the solider, (Eph 6:10-18: His faith in Christ, his love of Truth, his borrowed righteousness, his soul being saved, his love for the Gospel, his handling of God’s Word) is critical for him to stand in any fight with the Enemy.

Therefore, the weakness of the Protestant approach is that with such an emphasis on the believers authority, an ill-equipped but emboldened Saint may tackle a devil head on and not succeed in driving it out. This even happened to Christ’s Apostles (Mark 9:28), thus it will and does happen to modern saints as well. They pray in the authority of a Christ they themselves are not fully subordinate to, and thus they do not carry his authority and there is no lasting effect from their ministry.

Some find fault with the call to repeat the Catholic formula if there is no result, and this also has a Protestant version whereby the pray-ers increase their emotional/spiritual intensity during the exorcism if it’s “not working” (getting louder, praying in tongues etc). They see this as frenetic, human attempts to manufacture power, instead of a simple dependence on Christ. It may be that in many cases, however, I don’t see inherent fault in having to repeat exorcisms or for them being drawn out affairs. We all want such healing work to be permanent, effective and simple, but let us remember we are not dealing with Computer Viruses! These are powerful, willful, personal spiritual agents – who also are evil. Again, this is warfare, not charades. Jesus himself said a healing work could be effective only to need repeating – there are free wills involved here, that of the victim, and the demon(s) (Matthew 12:43-45). God has chosen not to usurp these, thus he chooses to work with the faith not only of the Exorcist, but also the victim, whether Catholic or Protestant.

Does being Christian and gay require Celibacy?

Question:

I appreciate your teaching on homosexuality - walking a line I often can`t always articulate or even fully grasp in the Tug of War with Biblical Truth and modern culture. I still struggle with asking anyone to remain celibate. It`s a lot to ask. For now, I for one am just grateful to acquire more real people in my life who are lesbians and gay so the whole thing can be taken out of theory into Love in action.

Answer:


This is such a difficult discussion for many, myself included, as we all have gay friends, and gayness is front page news every day. This is doubly difficult when loved ones either struggle with same sex attraction or are deeply convinced this is a civil rights issue and being on the “wrong side of history” is the newest unforgivable sin.

If so, this is a “sin” we Christians will steadfastly continue to commit, simply because we surrender to a wisdom higher than our own. On my own, I’d go with the flow. I don’t care to make homosexuality illegal, and I don’t care to want to proscribe it as another form of sexual expression – if that’s what a person wants to do. But I’ve taken my cues from a better Mind, one that I believe invented sex, so the core of my commitment to believe homoerotic sex is inherently “disordered”, lies there. Him, I've learned to trust.

But note, the “lifelong celibacy” requirement for gays turning to Christ, is not quite the dire picture we imagine. We imagine it’s dire, only because we have bought the whole package of what “gayness” is from a confused and defensive gay culture. Namely this idea that orientation is some inviolable, sacrosanct biological wiring that has no bend, no flex, no morph-ability.

Look, all arguments about “born gay” aside, the truth is people who have certain sexual preferences can choose to have sex successfully in ways that don’t align with those preferences. Some people prefer masturbation to copulation, but choose to not self-sex because they come to believe it’s a violation of a higher design, that sex was designed to be interpersonal; an intimacy building activity between persons, not narcissism.

Likewise, some people have been in heterosexual marriages for years, had children, then come out of the closet, announced they were gay the whole time, and left marriage and children behind. Whatever is true about their orientation, their actual experience (repeated by millions of gays) is that they were perfectly capable of heterosexual sex. Was it what they preferred? I guess not, but they CAN engage in such sex as they did so in the past.

And so, for the sake of Christ, lawful sex is readily available for the person with same sex attraction as it is for anyone else. It’s only in our current climate of torturous adherence to self actualization and constant self fulfillment that we could think a person eschewing one kind of sex for another because they believe it better for them, for others and for society in the long run, even if they prefer it less, is a terrible, immoral act.

It used to be that rejecting sex that you preferred for “lawful sex” that honored God and blessed human society was considered noble. Not any more, I guess. All that to say, a Christian struggling with same sex attraction is not cursed to a life of celibacy, unless the only sex they would ever consider engaging in, is homoerotic. Then, yes, celibacy is the only way to honor God with their sexuality.

But as I said, they can choose to participate fully in God’s sexual design, even if they harbor other desires. And let us not forget the transforming power of the Holy Spirit and good Christian counsel that may affect the “strength or direction of sexual desires” - contrary to popular dogma.

By the way, EVERY Christian who wants to walk faithfully in Christ does some of this "rejecting of sexual preferences". No one is “oriented” to always do sex God’s way. No one. So the homosexual is not in a unique position. Sexual preferences (and that’s all an “orientation” is after all) are quite literally legion. God’s sexual design is singular.

Now, is it less a stretch to discipline an unlawful heterosexual desire into God’s design than a homosexual desire? Perhaps. But Jesus did predict that the path of the disciple would at times strain the bounds of what we think is humanly possible (Matthew 19:26) And let's face it: everyone finds some parts of God’s sexual design agreeable and other parts less so. Most playboys are perfectly happy with the "Hetero" aspect of Christian sexuality but have a huge internal, physical preference problem with the monogamous part, or the permanent part. Some homosexuals are agreeable to the monogamy part, but clearly struggle with the heterosexual part.

It's only because we bought the culture's packaging of this issue that we think the Christian position on sexuality uniquely targets or is uniquely onerous for gays. It does not and it is not.
By the way, I love your attitude to be relationship with people who are gay and to be Love in action. Way to go. May God show off both his grace and truth through you. People need Jesus, not because they are gay, but because they are sin-separated rebels – a condition which predates sexual outworking. When we see all people that way, gayness fades to the background and God’s mercy can take center stage.

When was Jesus actually crucified?

Question:

I have been wondering about the actual time of the Crucifixion of Christ with Easter almost here. In John 19:14 it seems to say that at the 6th hour Jesus was crucified where in Mark 15:25 it says the 3rd hour. Also, John seems to suggest that Jesus died on the Preparation Day for the Passover where the other Gospels say the Last Supper was the Passover Feast. I believe the Bible to be infallible, but I want to know how the two stories fit together? Hoping you can help? Thanks.

Answer:


The problem with the hours mentioned around Christ’s crucifixion are fairly easily answered. Your other question about the exact meal that was eaten at the Last Supper has been the subject of much more wide ranging debate and opinions. Let me attempt to give you the best explanation I have for these apparent discrepancies.

The difference in the time of Jesus being crucified in Mark versus John is most likely the result of Mark reckoning the time in Hebrew mode and John in Roman mode, which is how we in the West do it today. The reason for this difference is that Mark is writing to a mostly Jewish Christian audience, probably before 60 AD, and John is writing much later, to a mostly Gentile Christian audience, around 90-100 A.D. We know John is concerned for his non-Jewish readers’ perspective as he translates Hebrew terms for their benefit often (John 1:38, 9:7, 20:16).

The difference in the two methods of telling time is that the Hebrews marked their day sunset to sunset, the Romans, midnight to midnight. To understand Mark then, we must understand the day begins with the watches of the night (6 PM on). The night was broken up, not into hours, but into these “watches”, standing for military sentinels who remained on duty for 4 periods. The last period (or 4th watch of the night) ended at sunrise. For the Hebrews, this would be hour zero. Near the Equator, the sun rises around 6 am all year long. So when Mark says Jesus was crucified at the 3rd hour, that’s the 3rd hour from hour zero (6 am). Thus, he was crucified at 9:00 am.

This reconciles perfectly with John’s record, if John is marking time in Roman time, from midnight. Thus, the 6th hour in John refers to 6 AM. Now, why is it not 9 AM as in Mark? Well the context reveals that the actual event that John says happened in the 6th hour was NOT the crucifixion. It’s the trial before Pilate. It stands to reason then, that it took another three hours to beat Jesus and drive him and his cross outside the city to Golgotha for execution, which happened around 9 AM.

Later, Matthew and Mark will say that Jesus died at the 9th hour, which again, from a Hebrew reckoning would be 3 PM (9 hours from 6 am), thus he hung on the cross for 6 hours until he died.
Now the question about whether the Last Supper was a Passover is explained partly by the Jewish reckoning of time and mostly by understanding Jewish Passover traditions from Moses. If you read in Exodus 12 about the first Passover, you realize that the Passover begins in the Jewish month Nisan, the 14th – the Day of Preparation (Ex 12:6). The week Jesus was killed, Nisan 14 was a Friday. On this day each family was to sacrifice a lamb in the afternoon and eat it that night after sundown. But remember, by Jewish reckoning a meal that evening was actually taking place on the next day – Nisan 15. In this case, the next day was Saturday – the Sabbath – making it both a 7th day Sabbath and a Passover Sabbath – hence a special Sabbath (John 19:31).

So John has it right, Friday night (when Jesus was dead) was the Passover meal. But if so, what was Jesus eating with this disciples on Thursday night? He seems to think of it as a Passover meal:

Luke 22:8 Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover ." NIV.

This tension is resolved in a few ways by scholars, but the best is to understand that there is more than one meal that might qualify as a Passover meal. Looking back into the first Passover commands, we see that the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Ex 12:18) ALSO starts on Nisan 14. The Bible says it was eaten on the evening of the 14th day, which is the beginning of that day by Jewish reckoning, not the end. Thus it corresponds to Thursday night of the passion week. It's that meal that Jesus ate with his disciples.

It launches Passover week. As such, it might be called a Passover by Jesus, even though it was not the time to eat the actual Passover lamb. So if the Lord's supper took place on what we would call Thursday night, the evening (beginning) of the 14th of Nisan, the meal would have no roast lamb but only unleavened bread and wine. Interestingly, roast lamb is never mentioned at the Last Supper, only bread and wine.

The only other plausible explanation I've heard is derived from Luke 22:15-16. It says,

I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.

Some scholars feel Jesus is not actually calling the meal they are eating the Passover but that his actual meaning is, “I wanted to eat the Passover, but I won't until I come again." They note that Luke 22:15 can be rendered as follows:

I have longingly desired to eat this Passover with you before my suffering; 16 however, I tell you that I shall not eat of it, until it can be administered in the Kingdom of God." (The Holy Bible in Modern English)

That he still has them prepare for Passover (Mark 14:16) is no problem since they need to prepare for it, but Jesus doesn't reveal that he’ll be dead when it’s time for them to actually eat it. What they eat is some other meal, perhaps the first meal of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, launching Passover, or perhaps a meal of Jesus' own original design.

The second explanation is weaker, but both explanations indicate that the Lord’s Supper was probably not the actual Passover Lamb feast.

What is very interesting to note is this: Moses commanded that the Passover lambs were to be killed on Nisan 14 (the Day of Preparation) literally “between the evenings" (Ex 12:6). The Jews traditionally understood this to be around 3PM to 5 PM. So on Friday, the Day of Preparation for the Passover, around 3 PM, the day before the Sabbath, as hundreds of lambs were being killed at the Temple site, at that very moment somewhere just outside the city gate, surrounded by only a few brave women, Jesus’ blood was spilling out on Golgotha and he breathed his last.

Kind of lends new and awesome significance to 1 Cor 5:7 where Paul says:

For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. NIV

Is predestination contrary to free will?

Question:

There are many verses that indicate there is no free will, however I was raised to believe in free will. Now I am at a loss to explain why i believe. The doctrine of predestination seems so contrary to free will.

Answer:


This is a big question so it gets a big answer.

First of all, I don’t think it would be fair to characterize the doctrine of predestination as contrary to free will – not even for those who hold to Reformed Theology. Even for very strict Calvinists, the idea that God predestines some to heaven and others to hell is not mutually exclusive of the idea that people choose to go to heaven or to hell freely. They would hold that somehow, people are choosing exactly what they really want, while at the same time, God has predestined and chosen that fate for them from before the creation of the world.

So also no Christian who believes in free will denies the doctrine of predestination. As you said, many verses talk about this concept, so to deny it would seem obviously heretical. Thus, all Christians hold the two ideas in tension, free will and predestination… and a perennial debate for centuries has been, how to put them together without violating Scripture, logic or both.

Some verses (ones I’m guessing you are referring to) seem to affirm a kind of predestination that violates free will. But do they really? Read in context we begin to understand what predestination means – or specifically what it does NOT mean: predestination in Scripture is not a default affirmation of DETERMINISM, which DOES undermine freewill. Determinism is essentially the same as Fate, the idea that all things play out according to a pre-written script and real freedom is illusory.

Let's deal with 3 of the texts that deal with predestination and I think you'll see we have reasons to doubt that these passages really do "indicate there is no free will" as you fear. Let's begin with: Ephesians 1:4,

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight."

Here it looks like God chooses everything ahead of time. But some have read this verse with deterministic lenses for so long that they miss what exactly it is that God has chosen ahead of time. Paul doesn’t say, “God chose who will be in Christ.” Rather he says, “God chose us in Christ to be holy and blameless in his sight.” The thing God has predetermined from before all time, is the end state for all the elect who are in Christ. That thing which he has predetermined is that we be perfect and set apart.

To help understand this, imagine if I give a sermon and showed a movie clip to illustrate my point. You could say I predestined that people who came to church that day would see the clip. Let’s say 4 months ago I planned and chose the clip. But the showing up in the building, was a matter of someone else's choice, not mine. Or maybe it was a joint effort. Let's say I asked people to come, advertised the event, and influenced them to be there. But they decided to agree with that call, or not. But once here, it is MY choice and unalterable purpose that all who are in the building, will experience that clip.

Now it should be pointed out that a few verses later (1:11) Paul seems to double down on freedom-denying predestination when he says,

"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will."

To understand this we have to pay attention to the repeated use of "in Him" in the context of "choosing". The choosing God does is always tied to Christ. One theologian said that this must mean that the ONLY one who is truly Chosen, the One who is Loved and Predestined by the Father to rule over all things, is Christ alone. Prior to verse 11, Paul is emphasizing Christ as the center of God's love, plan and will. Thus it is simply and only "in Him" that we have any part of the Father or his Life and Love.

So when Scripture talks about predestination, it is the glorification of Christ that is in view, and us by association with him and that by faith.

This explains why there's no mention in Ephesians of the "un-chosen". It would be strange indeed if Paul was underlining here that everyone's eternal destines have been predestined without their complicity, to not mention the non-chosen who are equally locked in by the plan of God. When talking about how Christians appear to the saved, in 2 Cor 2:16, he mentions the corollary fact of how we appear to the unsaved. Why no corollary here? Because there is no corollary to talk about!. There is no un-choosing, there is only God's choosing of Him and us "in Him" - and that through faith, which he will detail at length in the next chapter.

The choosing which creates the "Elect" is never a simple business in Scripture. Sometimes, it sounds as though the Elect are those who choose God as in 2 Thessalonians 2:13. And twice when the Bible mentions God's choosing us, it also mentions his "foreknowing us" - giving indication that the choosing is in concert with His omniscience - his seeing us in advance (1 Peter 1:2; Rom 8:29). This suggests some kind of concert between our choosing and God's choosing. And again, in Romans 8:29, we see the foreknowing and the choosing in advance are towards a purpose or end state (which is conformity into the image of Christ), not a choosing of some and an "un-choosing" of others, without regard for their faith.

You cannot read these sentences half way and expect them to make sense. "God chose us" or "God predestined us..." is only half a sentence. The other half is always, "...in Him" or "... to be holy", or "conformed to the image of his Son."

When talking about what it means to be chosen, Jesus himself gives a parable to help us understand how God's choosing works. In Matt 22 Jesus says the Gospel banquet invitation goes out to everyone. Not just to the expected or worthy, but to the outsiders and the unworthy too. Everyone. And in the parable, it's the response to the invitation that determines if one becomes one of the chosen or one of those cast out. Jesus’ own conclusion is this:

"many are invited, few are chosen." (Matt 22:14).

This is in keeping with the overwhelming theme in Scripture that God in some sense "chooses" everyone. That is, He calls and woos all, and His love is universal, his love is impartial, and his love desires all to be saved (e.g. I Jn 4:8; Duet 10:17-19; 2 Chron 19:7; Ezek 18:25; Mk 12:14; Jn 3:16; Acts 10:34; Acts 17: 27; Rom. 2:10-11; Eph 6:9; I Tim 2:4; I Pet 1:17; 2 Pet. 3:9). To take Eph 1 texts about God's choosing to imply that God predestines some to salvation others for damnation without regard for their faith forces you to radically bend these texts or ignore them altogether.
Another key text used by Determinists is John 6:44

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,"

It is of course, obvious biblically that for a person to choose Christ, God must be involved in their broken desires, to enlighten and to draw. But this doesn’t violate their free will, nor does it affirm a Fatalistic universe where he sets us up to want what he wants us to want. Nor does it assume that if a person DOESN’T come to Christ that the Father never loved them or drew them. It simply means that God is among the free wills operating in the world, and one of the things he freely does is draw people and gift them with the ability to respond to his offer, and without his help, none would respond.

But does this verse mean (as Determinists would argue) that God never "draws" or woos or calls people to reach out for him, who do not ultimately choose grace? In fact, we're told Jesus has “mercy” on the rich young ruler and calls him specifically to discipleship and salvation. But that man turned away. Jesus also looks at Jerusalem in a stirring lament and says,

“how I longed to gather you... but you were not willing.” (Matt 23:37)

In the Determinist world, God never really drew the rich young ruler nor all the lost in Jerusalem and they were destined for hell from before all time. Well, this doesn’t jive with the text. Jesus is clearly drawing Jerusalem – but they are freely rejecting the gift of God’s offer. If this rejection was not just seen, but PLANNED by Jesus from before all time, why is He crying over their damnation? In the Determinist view, it is Jesus after all, who MADE them to reject him! This view violates everything about this text..

A final key verse used to under-gird Determinism is Romans 9:14-15:

"What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

The entire chapter of Romans 9 is seen by many as a blueprint for understanding God’s negating of free will. They say God chooses unilaterally who is saved and who is not, and if you happen to raise the issue of logic (“how can God rightly condemn a person whom he predestines from all eternity past to be hardened?”) then you are simply directly to this passage where God has mercy on whomever he wants. If you press the matter further and say, “but that’s not fair”, you are told, “who are you talk back to God?” (vs. 19).

At first this seems to be persuasive for a Deterministic view. But then we step back and see Paul’s overarching argument from Romans 9 thru 11, and that argument is not about individual salvation, but about God’s faithfulness to the nation of Israel, and their role in salvation history. The question being answered in Romans is, why have the Jews by and large rejected their Messiah? This is a disturbing question that caused many Jewish Christians to wonder if God’s Promises to Israel had failed.

Paul's argument then is to establish that the Jewish rejection of Messiah, and God's subsequent picking of a covenant people from among the Gentiles is not unfair or a failure or out of pattern. Paul is reminding his Jewish audience in Romans 9 that God has always chosen nations for service based on his own choice and not on inherent goodness in them or their pedigree.

He proves this by reminding them that God did not choose ALL Abraham's descendants as his covenant people, but only those of "the promise"; sons of Isaac. And then afterwards, God chooses Jacob and not Esau. But this is not referring to individuals for salvation, but nations for service. The quote from Malachi proves this. "Jacob I love and Esau I hated" is specifically about the nation of Edom, not one man, Esau. So Paul is arguing that God has a right to pick any people he wants for such service. In both Isaac and Jacob, God picks them unexpectedly, out of birth order, and both are rascals, which shows God's mercy and lack of concern for human works or family background.

What he's saying is simply that the Jews should not be shocked that God is now including Gentiles into his covenant people. Why not? He delights in showing mercy to whomever he wants, and this is his established pattern of upside-down grace. Yet we're talking about broad people groups, not individuals.. If it were about individuals, we have to imagine that God is saying here that every Edomite and every Moabite and Ishmaelite was eternally condemned because God didn't choose them when he chose Isaac and Jacob. No, it simply means that they were not chosen or preferred for service as Israel was.

The strong reprimand then, "who are you to talk back to God..." is reserved for those who question God's right to pick Gentiles based on their faith (he makes that clear in a second), and who are upset that God is not (as he never was) impressed with Israel's works or her genetics.

What should cement this case is simply that Paul concludes his own complex reasoning with a simple thought. So we should let him speak for himself and not impose Determinism on his thinking, when he is very clear that that's not what's driving this argument in this chapter. He wraps by saying,

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal..."

This is incredibly important. If the Deterministic view was right, here we should expect Paul to summarize by saying, "so then we see that God sovereignly chooses who is saved and who is damned randomly and mysteriously and don't question him." Instead, Paul says God's picking and granting righteousness is not arbitrary at all. It is based on the condition of faith which God has always been looking for, and not on a genetic pedigree from Abraham, or even meticulous law observance. In other words, in the end, Paul appeals to free will, and grace, not Determinism.

The charge of God being arbitrary or unfair is, in fact behind the whole flow of Romans 9-11 - but not unfair because he picks who is saved and no one should talk back to him. The Jews Paul is addressing here would probably like that line of thinking, assuming God has always picked them and anyone who questions that favoritism should be slapped. No, Paul clearly doesn't want to play into that hand. Rather the charge he's dealing with is that God is unfair because he allows the Gentiles into the Kingdom and he at the same time has hardened the Jews.

For the Jews would see God's hardening of them, the law keepers, and the granting of mercy to the Gentiles, the sinners, as very arbitrary. In fact, Paul is arguing, this is perfectly consistent with what God has always done. This is why Pharaoh is brought into the argument in 9:17. Now, you Jews, Paul is saying, have taken Pharaoh's role. God hardened him BECAUSE OF HIS UNBELIEF (Ex 8:15). He hardens those who harden themselves.

So just as Paul concludes that the picking of the Gentiles was NOT arbitrary, so the hardening of the Jews was also not arbitrary. They pursued righteous by works instead of by faith (9:32). So this hardening was perfectly consistent with the criteria of faith God has always worked with. He gives mercy in response to faith and he hardens in response to unbelief. It’s not the other way around. People don’t have faith as a result of God having mercy on them, and people don’t have unbelief as a result of God hardening them. So the person making the "free will" argument against God (9:19) is a Jew complaining that God has hardened them without cause.

Interestingly, when he brings in the Potter analogy to emphasize the, "don't talk back" point, if we understand the Old Testment reference, it's opposite of the "God predestines your destiny and just shut up." In Jeremiah 18, the Prophet is taken to a Potter who starts with a lump of clay and then starts over. God tells Jeremiah that God too has the right, to start over with Israel. God can announce a plan to bless, but he reserves the right to change that plan, BASED ON the stubborn disobedience of that nation. And visa versa - and he has this right to change his plan, based on the repentence or the condition of that nation.

Now, transpose that clear allusion to the overarching conversation of Romans 9 and Paul's point clears up. He's not saying to those who wonder why God elects some for damnation against their will, shut up and don't talk back, God does whatever he wants. He's saying to those who wonder why God elects some nations and hardens others, "God can change his mind if he wants to, based on the changing conditions in people. If the sinful Gentiles belive on the Christ, they will be elected for salvation despite their past. if the chosen Jews disbelieve in the Christ, they will be hardened, despite their past glory (9:4.5).

Paul seals his case by quoting Isaiah, "see, I have placed in Zion ... a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him [not the one whom I predetermine without regard for belief] will never be put to shame." And later we’ll find out that even God’s hardening of the Jews in response to unbelief is not determinative because all they have to do is stop their unbelief, and God will change his plans for them (11:32)! Which again underscores Jeremiah 18:8.

So predestination is agreed to by all Christians, but what does that idea mean? We’ve seen that it doesn’t have to mean that God has fatalistically planned all things out and removed free will in the process. It’s more likely that it means God sees all, and sees those who would believe in him, and since God calls all to reach out for him (Acts 17:27), and desires all to be saved (2 Peter 3:9), we can say that those who respond in faith, complete his salvation offer and BECOME the chosen. And God has predestined, and planned for this Chosen People to be holy and like Christ, and nothing will stop that plan from being executed.

How do you explain the Trinity?

Question:

I'm having a difficult time trying to explain the trinity to someone who is not a believer an I find it quite difficult, any suggestions on how to simplify the concept of three in one god to a non believer?

Answer:

Well, your difficulty in explaining the Trinity to your friend is quite natural since the concept has been historically hard to explain. It's been so difficult that some Christian sects have just repudiated the concept altogether, such as the Jehovah Witnesses.

I think it's helpful to start by explaining how Christians came up with this description for God. Why invent this paradoxical (some would say contradictory) vision of God's nature in the first place? Well, that may actually be a mark in it's favor as revealed Truth. Indeed, who WOULD invent something like this? Certainly not someone interested in winning converts through a user friendly religion!

So it begins like this: Christians believe in one God. We're monotheists. We accept the testimony of Moses who said in Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." But then secondly, we realized that there came a man (Jesus) who claimed to be One with this one God. And not merely "One" in the sense of being "on the same page" as God, but One in the sense of being one in nature, character and being. But He wasn't just God taking Human form for a while, because this Man claimed a relationship WITH God as well as being God himself. He referred to God as his Father, and he was his Son. Thirdly, this Man also taught that God would send his very Presence in a special way on his Followers. And again, this wasn't just God sending forth his power, but a distinct person from God is named, the Counselor, the Spirit of God. So now you have three entities, all claiming to be God, to have all the divine prerogatives of Godhood, and yet all are not just "modes" of this One God, they exist independently and simultaneously. The moment that confirms these three persons co-exist is Matt 3:16,17, the Father speaks from heaven, the Spirit descends like a dove and the Son is baptized.

So there it is, One God existing eternally in three Persons - the Trinity. This is not what we believe because we WANT to believe it, or because we made it up. It came to us by revelation and so it's not entirely clear to anyone HOW this is true about God, because it seems illogical. So some have tried to give illustrations to help ease the tension.

But all attempts to come up with metaphors for the Trinity to make it "easy to understand" eventually break down. The reason they do, is because they all either minimize the true Oneness or Threeness of God. Together they can help to make the Trinity a little more accessible, but none is a perfect analogy.

Here's a few famous ones:

1. A man is a Husband to his wife, and he's a Father to his children and he's a worker on the job. There's just one man, but he's three people in different situations. Weakness: it compromises the THREENESS of God because the man is never in his roles simultaneously, co-existing side by side with his "alter egos". He's only ever one of these. But the Trinity is Father Son and Spirit, at the same time, all the time.

2. Water is made up of three atoms - two hydrogen and one oxygen. Together they make one cohesive element, but it's made up of three distinct parts. Weakness: it compromises the ONENESS of God because if you break the three atoms up, you don't have water. Each are not fully water themselves but only when all the parts are put together. Each member of the Trinity is fully God, not 1/3 of God.

3. Water is able to take three forms, solid, liquid and gas, yet these distinct forms are still just one element. Weakness: it compromises the THREENESS of God because water is not simultaneously all three phases.

4. An egg is made up of three parts, the nucleus, white and shell, yet all the parts form just one egg. Weakness, it compromises the ONENESS of God because the parts are not fully "egg" in themselves.

Despite the weakness in each, you might find each of these analogies to be helpful in explaining the Trinity. As long as you come back to this simple formula, God is One in Being, Three in Person - you are staying true to the Biblical data about God's nature. "Never comingling the Persons, never dividing the Being."

How can this be? It is not perfectly explainable and Christians rest in the fact that if every part of God's nature as revealed to us was perfectly agreeable to us, we might wonder if we made a God in our own image. But the Trinity is not the kind of God I would have invented or wanted. Yet, Jesus revealed this is the God who is.

Probably the most helpful analogy to me is the one put forward by CS Lewis in Mere Christianity. It doesn't violate the THREENESS or ONENESS of God by lifting the paradox out of our limited playing field. Imagine a world where it's entirely 2 dimensional. All creatures exist with length and width, but no depth. And all these creatures exist as squares on a perfect grid. They relate only along their sides and each square has only one "face". Now imagine into this 2D world there descends a square from a 3D world. This being interacts with the other squares touching their length and width, but he says that while he is a square, he is nevertheless different from them. In fact, he says, I'm what we call a cube. What's a cube?, they ask. He says, it's a special square, where I'm actually 6 squares, 6 faces within ONE square. How can that be?, they ask. They have no way in their 2 dimensional world to assimilate the idea that a square could be eternally 6 squares and yet still be just one thing. In their world, 6 squares are 6 entities. We of course, can see how adding a dimension makes the 6 in 1 paradox possible, but they cannot.

Likewise, we cannot see how the 3 persons can coexist within the 1 being of God. Surely it's either THREE gods or it's ONE god in three modes! We can't see the way it can fit in our scope of experience and in our space/time reality - it's illogical, self-contradictory! But if we can understand how the difference between 2 dimensions and 3 dimensions can make the impossible possible with squares, surely in the extra dimensionality of God's eternal existence, it's not inherently impossible for the 1 God to exist in 3 persons.

How can pastors/ministries justify charging money for messages?

Question:

How do today's pastors justify charging money for their messages? Even Christian counseling radio programs are like infomercials to sell the books they have written. It is so discouraging to see the merchandising of Jesus and even Christian concerts require money to purchase a ticket. If Jesus didn't ever sell anything, how do today's ministries justify doing so? When I have asked these questions, not one of them will respond. I don't understand how pastors can even justify charging for their mp3 downloads, are they in complete denial, or serving the god of money?

Answer:

  Well, let me say first that I share your frustration over the fact that Ministers of the Gospel and certain ministries seem to put the money question out in front of everything else. And it's deeply troubling to me that they then give the impression that they are 'selling their messages'. That impression is a real problem, regardless of the reality behind it, because it means that people like you may be lead to believe that God only wants your pocketbook, or that the message of salvation can be bought.

Now underneath that impression, I think the reality is probably a lot more complicated than you realize. For example, when a radio ministry promos a book, in most cases I know of, they will send that book to you for free if you don't have the money to pay. Most of their listeners can pay and they offer the book for a "suggested donation". This is not to justify the saturation of a program with items to buy, but it should mitigate your feeling that all such ministries wouldn't distribute their message except for a exorbitant profit. The fact is, books cost money and unless a single donor covers the cost for many others, the writers of such books have to charge money to cover those costs through a retail price, or stop printing books. Which is better?

But what about pastors who simply preach the Gospel and then make the audio available online? What about Christian artists who paint inspiring paintings or write inspiring songs? The list of ways that we package our Message is pretty diverse and in each of these it's probably not hard to imagine the substantial costs that are involved in making that message available. The only way for such messages to get out through such diverse media is through money. Even a man standing on the street corner preaching a message requires money, in this sense: he must forgo other work he could be doing with that life energy that's going into preaching, and that life energy represents potential money. If he preaches on the street corner, someone is still PAYING for that to happen. It's himself, or his hearers. It's not free, even it it's offered for free.

So, is it completely unbiblical and un-Christ like to create opportunities for those who receive such messages, the readers, the listeners, the concert goers, the downloaders, and watchers, to be willing and to be expected to pay for what they have received? This might surprise you to learn, but the oft repeated answer from Scripture, from Jesus himself is, no it is NOT unbiblical. Check this out:

1 Cor 9:10-11: Paul says: Did not God speak about this because of us. For sure, this was written for us. The man who gets the fields ready and the man who gathers in the grain should expect some of the grain. We have planted God’s Word among you. Is it too much to expect you to give us what we need to live each day?

Paul felt it was the right for a minister who preaches the gospel that he/she should be able to make a living from gospel recipients. He uses the illustration from the old testament about oxen not being muzzled as they tread grain. When the ox is working, you do not keep him from eating some of the grain that the ox itself is threshing out. Let him eat a portion of what he's creating. The point is, a preacher is producing fruit in lives turned to God. Those lives now turn all their life resources over to the direction of God. Paul says, the preacher/ teacher/ servant should share in part of those resources he is helping to generate.

The call is really to the recipient more than the preacher. Rather than the preacher demanding it, God's Word tells those who are helped by Christian ministers to be generous with them. If the Church operated the way the Bible tells us to, then you would never hear any appeals for money because God's people would just obey the principle of the Bible and generously support those who support them in their faith. You’d hear on the radio about a certain book offered for free, but no Christian would think about getting it unless they sent in the retail price and maybe a little more. (This is a gentle challenge: before you criticize those who charge for messages, ask: Do I spontaneously and generously offer up compensation for messages I benefit from?)

Paul underlined this again in 1 Tim 5:17, 18

Leaders who do their work well should be given twice as much pay, and for sure, those who work hard preaching and teaching. The Holy Writings say, “When a cow is walking on the grain to break it open, do not stop it from eating some” , and “A person who works should be paid.”

And since you mentioned that Jesus never sold anything I should bring up the fact that this principle – that a Christian worker should be paid by those who benefit from their labor – is from Jesus himself. He said in Luke 10:7

Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages.
It's true he didn't tell his followers to write books and sell them. Or to perform songs and charge admission... but the idea that Christian workers should be paid by those who benefit from their labor, is biblical and derived from Christ himself.

Now, a door charge, or a set "fee" turns the issue around so that the Christian leader is demanding the payment, instead of the recipient spontaneously offering the payment. But perhaps in our culture, the fee or the "suggested donation" is often easier and more appreciated.

To illustrate: in my own case, I receive a set salary, which could be termed a "fee" for my gospel labor. However, this way of doing it has this benefit: the minister always gets a set, agreed upon (and in our case a publicly known) amount of compensation. Some Christian ministries run into problems because the giving to those preacher is direct and very generous and very spontaneous. Without a set amount to live on, those preachers often are the ones who become scandal laced headlines as they have no built in governor on their income. It ebbs and flows with the gifts that come directly to them. Without a set 'fee' they take ALL that's given and the generous giving of God’s people corrupts them. This violates another Biblical principle, that a plurality of leaders ought to oversee the churches donations and there should be transparency. (2 Cor 8:20)

As a Christian pastor, I have no problem receiving a salary for my full time Gospel work because of these biblical principles. But when I go to other places beside my home church, I don't expect any payment. But true to this biblical model, in most cases, those people readily offer me some gift for my service rendered.

Christian ministers should be paid, and some might even argue, paid well. It's what they then do with that money that legitimately comes to them, that's the issue. In fact, how they use it SHOULD be a further blessing to the people who support them. I say to my people, “watch how I live, watch how I give, and follow my example of living simply, setting a standard of living and not letting it chase my income, and giving generously to God's Work”. It's a tricky little balance: my salary is public knowledge, but I keep my giving numbers private to honor Matthew 6:3, yet I tell them what I do (I tithe, at times I give above and beyond the tithe) to lead them in giving. Meanwhile, there are people who DO know what I give, and I’d be a fool to preach giving if those people knew I never gave. Also, our church books are open, and all that that builds trust.


If the ministries you mention have open books, (and they should) you can see who is making what and where the money goes. In most cases, I bet, you would be pleased with the distribution of fees, ticket charges, suggested donations, and other income. If they don't have open books, stop giving to them.