Labels

Bible Problems (19) Bible (17) Jesus (11) Jesus Christ (10) Sex (9) Marriage (7) Prophecy (7) Grace (6) Homosexuality (6) Creation (5) God (5) Moses (5) Paul (5) Salvation (5) Ceremonial Law (4) Creation Evolution (4) Evolution (4) Heterosexuality (4) Moral Law (4) Morality (4) Abraham (3) Angels (3) CS Lewis (3) Calvinism (3) Children (3) Church (3) Free Will (3) Love (3) Orientation (3) Prayer (3) Predestination (3) Premarital Sex (3) Temple (3) Temple Destruction (3) Transgender (3) Transgenderism (3) Works (3) Abortion (2) Abstinence (2) Angel (2) Bible Prophecy (2) Catholic (2) Character of God (2) Christianity (2) Church History (2) Determinism (2) Ezekiel 28:12-17 (2) Faith (2) Faith & Science (2) Fetus (2) Flood (2) Forgiveness (2) Genesis 6 (2) Gentile (2) Homosexual Sin (2) Israel (2) Jehovah's Witnesses (2) Job (2) Jonah (2) Mosaic Law (2) Myth (2) Old Testament (2) Peter (2) Romans 8:28-39 (2) Salvation by Grace (2) Satan (2) Saul (2) Science (2) Sexual Orientation (2) Sexuality (2) Sin (2) Theistic Evolution (2) Translation (2) Trinity (2) Trust (2) 1 Cor 6:9 (1) 1 Cor 7:36 (1) 1 Cor 7:39 (1) 1 Cor 9:10-11 (1) 1 John 1:8 (1) 1 John 4:16 (1) 1 Sam 19:9 (1) 1 Tim 2:11-15 (1) 1 Tim 5:17-18 (1) 10 Commandments (1) 2 Cor: 6:14 (1) 2 Peter 3:9 (1) 2nd Coming (1) 2nd Temple (1) 3rd Temple (1) 4 Beasts (1) 4th Commandment (1) 501c3 (1) 5th Commandment (1) 9/11 (1) A.I. (1) AI (1) Abram (1) Acts 17 (1) Adam (1) Affluence (1) Age of Accountability (1) Age of Disciples (1) Aliens (1) Allah (1) America (1) American Christians (1) American Slave Trade (1) Analogy (1) Animals (1) Anne Rice (1) Antediluvian (1) Apostasy (1) Arrogant (1) Artificial Intelligence (1) Assyria (1) Atonement (1) Augustine (1) Baby (1) Beatitudes (1) Beginning (1) Behemoth (1) Believer (1) Big Bang (1) BioLogos (1) Birth Control (1) Body (1) Book of Mormon (1) Boundaries (1) Bridegroom Of Blood (1) Calvin (1) Canaanite Conquest (1) Canaanite Woman (1) Carl Sagan (1) Celibacy (1) Chalcedon (1) Child Sacrifice (1) Children of Israel (1) Choice (1) Christ The Lord Out of Egypt (1) Christian Dating nonChristian (1) Christianity Borrowed from Mystery Cults (1) Christianity is a Crutch (1) Christmas (1) Church Fathers (1) Church Problems (1) Church and Slavery (1) Church and State (1) Circumcision (1) Clean and Unclean foods (1) Cloud over Tabernacle (1) Co-dependence (1) Cohabitation (1) Col 1:15 (1) Col 2:8 (1) Computers (1) Conviction (1) Cosmological Argument (1) Count the Cost (1) Creation Mandate (1) Creed (1) Crocodile (1) Cross dressing (1) Crucifixion (1) Crutch (1) Cults (1) Cynthia Nixon (1) Damnation (1) Daniel (1) Daniel 7:15-18 (1) Darwin (1) Dating (1) Dead Sea (1) Death (1) Deception (1) Defile (1) Demonic Possession (1) Demons (1) Deut 22:28-29 (1) Deut 22:5 (1) Deut 7:3-4 (1) Deuteronomy 28:63 (1) Devil (1) Dietary Laws (1) Dinosaur (1) Dinosaurs and the Bible (1) Disciple (1) Disciples (1) Discipleship (1) Disobedience (1) Divine (1) Divinity (1) Divinity of Christ (1) Divorce (1) Doctrine (1) Dog (1) Doxology (1) Dress (1) Egypt (1) Elisha (1) Emergent (1) Emerging (1) End Times Timetable (1) Eph 3:9-10 (1) Eternity (1) Eve (1) Evidence for God (1) Evil Spirit (1) Existence of God (1) Existence of Jesus (1) Exodus 21:15 (1) Exodus 4:24-26 (1) Exorcism (1) Ezekiel 1 (1) Faith vs Works (1) Fall (1) Fallen Angels (1) Food laws (1) Freedom Tower (1) Gabriel (1) Galatians 6:1-5 (1) Galileo (1) Gay (1) Gen 1:12 (1) Gender Confusion (1) Genesis (1) Genesis 1 (1) Genesis 17:5 (1) Genesis 32:28 (1) Genetic Engineering (1) Giving (1) Glenn Beck (1) Global Warming (1) Glory (1) Gnostic (1) God Tempts (1) God of Love God of Wrath (1) God's Love (1) God's laws (1) Gomorah (1) Greed (1) Guilt (1) Harbinger (1) Hate Parents (1) Health and Wealth (1) Heaven (1) Heb 13:4-5 (1) Heb 1:14 (1) Hell (1) Hippo (1) Hippopotamus (1) Holy Place (1) Holy Spirit (1) Holy War (1) Holy of Holies (1) Horus (1) Hosea 4:3 (1) House in Order (1) Hugh Ross (1) Humanity of Jesus (1) IRS (1) Idolatry (1) Idols (1) Images (1) Images of God (1) Immaculate Conception (1) Intelligent Design (1) Iraq (1) Is Allah the same as the Christian God (1) Is God A Moral Monster? (1) Isaac (1) Isaiah (1) Isaiah 11:1 (1) Isaiah 14:12-15 (1) Isaiah 19:21-25 (1) Isaiah 7:16 (1) Isaiah 9:9-10 (1) Islam (1) Jacob (1) James 2:24 (1) Jephthah (1) Jephthah's Daughter (1) Jesus Disciples (1) Jesus Divinity (1) Jesus Prophecy (1) Jesus' Siblings (1) Jew (1) Job 40:17 (1) Job 41-42 (1) Job 41:22:34 (1) John 19:14 (1) John 2:2 (1) John 3:19 (1) John 6:66 (1) John Lennox (1) John Sanford (1) Jonathan Cahn (1) Joseph (1) Joseph Smith (1) Josephus (1) Judaism (1) Judas (1) Judges (1) Judges 11:29-40 (1) Judgment (1) KJV (1) King James (1) LaHaye (1) Last Supper (1) Law of Love (1) Left Behind (1) Leviathan (1) Lincoln (1) Literal (1) Long Life (1) Long Life Spans (1) Lord's Prayer (1) Love for Enemies (1) Love our Enemies (1) Luke 10:7 (1) Luke 12:21 (1) Luke 14:25-33 (1) Luke 1:10-11 (1) Luke 7:47 (1) Luke 8:19-20 (1) Manuscripts (1) Mark 15:25 (1) Mark 2:17 (1) Mark 3:31-32 (1) Mark 7:24 (1) Marx (1) Mary (1) Mary mother of Jesus (1) Matt 12:46-47 (1) Matt 13:22 (1) Matt 18:3 (1) Matt 22:30 (1) Matt 6:9-13 (1) Matthew 15:21-28 (1) Matthew 16:28 (1) Matthew 19:17 (1) Mind (1) Mind and Cosmos (1) Mithras (1) Modern State of Israel (1) Money (1) Moral Issues (1) Moral Relativity (1) Mormon (1) Mormonism (1) Muslim (1) Mythology (1) NT Wright (1) Names Changed By God (1) Names for God (1) Natural Disaster (1) Nature (1) Nature religion (1) Nephilim (1) New Name (1) New Testament (1) New World Translation (1) Non-Profit Status (1) Nostradamus (1) Numbers 9:15-23 (1) Obedience (1) Obey the Gov't (1) Offering (1) Old and New Testament picture of God (1) Once saved always saved (1) Orthodoxy (1) Pagan (1) Pagan holiday (1) Parents (1) Passion Movie (1) Passover (1) Pastors (1) Paul Copan (1) Perpetual Virginity (1) Peter Singer (1) Philemon (1) Pluralism (1) Polygamy (1) Pompeii (1) Predictions (1) Pro-choice (1) Pro-life (1) Progressive Creationism (1) Promised Longevity (1) Prophet (1) Protestant (1) Ps 8:3-5 (1) Psalm 22:16 (1) Purification (1) Rape (1) Rebellious (1) Repentance (1) Respect (1) Rest (1) Resurrection (1) Return of Christ (1) Revelation (1) Revelation 17:9-11 (1) Richard Hess (1) Risen Movie (1) Ritual (1) Robin Hood (1) Roe V Wade (1) Roman Catholic (1) Romans (1) Romans 12:1-2 (1) Romans 9 (1) Romans 9:14-15 (1) Sabbath (1) Sabbath Keeping (1) Sacrifices (1) Salvation by Works (1) Sampson (1) Satan's Fall (1) Satan's origin (1) Saving Faith (1) Sentience (1) Serpent (1) Servanthood (1) Sexual Preference (1) Simon (1) Sin Lists (1) Single (1) Sinless (1) Skeptic (1) Slavery (1) Socialism (1) Sodom (1) Son of God movie (1) Sons of God (1) Soul (1) Soylent Green (1) Spiritual Warfare (1) Suicide (1) Sumerian Kings (1) Symbols (1) Syria (1) TULIP (1) Tabernacle (1) Tacitus (1) Temptation (1) The unforgivable sin (1) Thomas Nagel (1) Transfiguration (1) True Christianity (1) Truth (1) Turing Machine (1) Twin Towers (1) Unequally Yoked (1) Unseen Realm (1) Violence in the Bible (1) Was Christianity a Myth (1) Weak minded (1) Wealth (1) When Helping Hurts (1) Wilberforce (1) William Lane Craig (1) YEC (1) Young Earth Creationism (1) Youth (1) Zechariah (1) burden bearing (1) burdens (1) elders (1) faith versus science (1) food (1) free from the Law (1) ignorant (1) leadership (1) morals (1) oaths (1) occult (1) rash vows (1) vows (1) women (1) women in leadership (1) women in ministry (1)

Thursday, May 24, 2018

Why Does God Send an Evil Spirit on Saul?


QUESTION:  In 1 Samuel 19:9, an evil spirit is said to come from the Lord.  One translation says, "of the Lord".  How can a good God have or send an evil spirit?  Or is the Message translation right in calling this a "bad mood" from God?

RESPONSE:  No, the most natural reading is that Saul is tormented by an outside spiritual agent.  And this agent is evil - a demonic spirit.  So the problem as you noted, is this impression that God is seeming to act in demonic or evil ways.

1 Sam 19:9 is not the only time the writer of Samuel uses language that seems to indicate God is a source of evil.  Also, in 1 Sam 16:14 another time an evil spirit "from the Lord" came on Saul.  And in 2 Sam 24:1 it says that God’s anger was incited against Israel and caused David to sin in the census he took.

I want to focus on that last event because it'll help us understand the others.  Interestingly, there's a parallel account of the census in 1 Chron 21:1, and there, the author explicitly notes that it was Satan – not God – that incited David to sin.  And that dichotomy looks like it creates a whole new problem of a contradictory account.  But actually it helps us understand how the ancient Bible authors looked at causation.  And the way they looked at it, was very fluidly through the lens of the supremacy of Yahweh.

When it comes to causes, we know at least three kinds:  necessary, conditional and contributory.  A necessary cause is required for a certain effect, like the temperature being below 32 degrees is NECESSARY to cause water to freeze.  A conditional cause is needed, but not absolutely, like sex is a needed CONDITION to cause pregnancy, but other conditions are needed too, like ovulation etc.  Contributory causes may CONTRIBUTE to an effect, but alone they do not cause it, like not smoking is not a cause of long life, but may contribute to it.

So when it comes to God, the authors had no problem smashing together all these kinds of causes.  The reason is that they looked at the Lord's permission as the conditional cause for any effect.  If something happens, Yahweh must have permitted it – even if other conditions are needed too.  Now, if they were to explain all causes, they’d say that nothing happens without God, but some effects, like evil effects, must have other conditions in order to come about.  Why?  Because the Bible writers are absolutely unbending on the idea that God is completely righteous (Judg 5:11; Ezra 9:15; Ps 7:9; Rev 16:5), hates evil (Zech 8:17), and never does anything unjust (Rom 9:14).

However, the authors don’t take time to tease out all this theology in every narrative.  Thus, their very high view of the Lord's power as a conditional cause  for everything, meant that their language could slip into God seeming to do everything, including evil things, like in 2 Sam 24:1, causing David to sin. 

But as we see, another inspired author (of Chronicles) looks at the same event and knows that God’s permission was only a conditional cause, the actual cause of the sin was Satan, for they knew that “God tempts no man” (James 1:13).  Of course, even Satan, technically is only a conditional cause, for the final or necessary cause of sin, requires an actual sinner!  David.  Sin can’t be sin, unless you have one who commits it freely, even if other causes are needed conditions.  In this case, David is the necessary cause of the sin, not God.

So, back to Saul and the evil spirit “sent by the LORD”.  Here, the author distances God’s causation of Saul’s torment one step, in that he makes clear God is not the one actually causing the torment.  Who is?  The evil spirit is.  The question then is this: is God being unrighteous if he sends an evil spirit to accomplish some task?  Only, if the task itself, which God has permitted, is unrighteous.  But is it wrong for God to use an evil spirit to achieve a good end?  No.

Saul had lived a life of chronic disobedience to God, and therefore had opened himself to demonic oppression.  That was Saul’s choice.  And it was God’s just punishment, because of Saul’s disobedience, to torment him, using a spirit’s free choice to do so.  So three wills are choosing freely in this scenario:  God is choosing freely to discipline a wayward King, an evil spirit is choosing freely to torment a human (God is not forcing the spirit to do that - it's an evil spirit after all), and Saul is choosing freely to be wayward.

But just because this is true, doesn’t mean that God’s end is punishment alone.  We know that Paul “hands people over to Satan” for the ultimate end that disobedient teachers or believers are “taught not to blaspheme” and to be “saved” (1 Tim 1:20; 1 Cor 5:5).  So we can rightly surmise that God’s ultimate design in using that evil spirit (doing what it wanted to do) was to drive Saul to repentance.

The evil spirit does not know it’s being used for a good end.  We humans also can freely do evil, which God uses without our knowledge for some good end (Gen 50:20).  Evil spirits are no different than humans, as far as that goes.  God is not doing the evil, but he is taking the freely chosen evils and in his grand design, orchestrating or using them for good.  He’s that awesome.

So the spirit is a dog on a chain doing what dogs do, bite.  And God is at the end of the leash, doing what God does, orchestrating good ends.  God himself doesn’t “bite” (that is, sin), but in a fallen world, God uses sin he doesn't necessarily cause for redemptive purposes.

Thursday, May 17, 2018

Should I Read Genesis as Fact or Poem?


QUESTION:  With all the evidence for the Big Bang, the moon coming from the earth or some other planet, humans evolving from an early ape-like ancestors, etc, how should I view Genesis?  The bible says nothing about God making dinosaurs or other planets, it seems to portray Earth as the center of the universe. It says that humans all came from two humans that had no earthly parents or ancestors, and a lot of other things.  Noah’s Ark was also nearly an impossible event with a lot of “plot holes,” as well as the tower of babel and several other events.  It seems one can't see them as fact, so should I look at these as merely stories or epic poems, like Jesus’s metaphorical stories and hyperbole?

RESPONSE:  You're choosing between fact or poem, but this leaves out a third way to see a story: myth.  Myth can be both poetical and factual without it also being in all places literally true.  It's important to define "myth" properly, because in our vernacular, myth often means “fictitious tale” and even more strongly we sometimes mean, “a lie”.  Like when we say, the “myth of a flat earth” or the “myth of Bigfoot”.  We mean, something opposite of the truth. 

But in literature there are many cases where myth is actually pointing at truth.  In two ways:  First, myth could be like the parables of Jesus, which you mentioned.  These are non-historical stories which nevertheless reveal a “spiritual” truth.   These stories didn’t happen, they were non-historical events made up out of Jesus head, but they convey divine truths.  

If you look at Genesis this way, you are at least showing some respect for the text, but you wind up vacating it of any historical veracity at all, and (as I'll explain below) that runs into problems for the veracity of the global Christian story.

So I think you should open up to another kind of myth genre for some parts of Genesis.  Namely, 'a true event that really happened, or refers to people who really existed, but the facts are conveyed using non-literal settings or incomplete data or using exaggerated language'.   If taken literally such stories would be inaccurate, but if taken in its proper context or genre (like exaggeration, or metaphor, or poetry, or dream) is conveying actual facts.

Speaking of lenses, it is not a test of Christian orthodoxy to look at Genesis through the lens of strict, 6 day, young earth creationism.  And I concede this, not because of the pressures of modern scientific discoveries.  The Church Fathers Augustine and Origen both thought that the days of Genesis were non-literal.  IE: not 24 hour solar days.  Writing in the 300’s they were obviously not influenced by modern geology or astronomy!

Augustine’s view was affected by philosophy and by the text.  He believed God to be timeless, so, he asked, why are there any days of creation at all?  These must reflect some kind of creative potencies inside of God himself, he thought, and not convey actual time passing.  Also Origen noted the text itself suggested that the “days” were non-literal.  He noticed, as all Bible students do in a surface reading of Genesis one, that the sun shows up on day 4.  How can one have 3 solar days before there’s even a sun? 

Other reasons the text suggests a non-literal understanding of Genesis 1:  the text says, “let the earth bring forth fruit/seeds” and the original audience would understand that plants take many days and months, sometimes years to produce their seeds and fruit.  This can’t be a literal day, even to the first readers.

Also “let the land bring forth…” sounds strangely like some kind of natural development is happening without God directly bringing things into existence out of nothing.  Ironically, if you take this very literally, it looks like vegetation somehow comes out of the land by an ability God infused into the land.  There are serious Christians who are theistic evolutionists who take note of this.  There are biblical literalists who here might say, but everyone knows that God is bringing forth these creations instantly.  Do we?  That's not what it LITERALLY says.  So even a young earth perspective does not view the text literally at every turn.

Once Genesis is unhinged from strict literalism for good reasons that Christians have cited for literally millennia, we’re free to follow the evidence wherever it leads.  If we find out the universe is old, can Genesis accommodate that?  Yes.  Could God have imbued nature with some creative properties?  Genesis can accommodate that too.  Ironically, I think there are more serious scientific problems with thinking that inert matter can do all the work of making the complex bio-diversity of planet earth, than there are theological problems because of Genesis 1.

God could have used the natural processes and laws which he built into creation at the outset (the fine tuning of which powerfully suggests design), or he could have interfered in creative acts by infusing new information into the system over time.  These creative epochs, could be what’s meant by the creation days where each one is set apart with:  “Then God said…”

Here, I would just caution against thinking that because Genesis 1 may be non-literal it must therefore be a “mere story”.  Even if non-literal, Christians believe Genesis is communicating enormous truths – and not merely theological truths:

For example, Big Bang cosmology is a massive confirmation of Genesis cosmology.  Think about it:  for centuries ancient pagans believed in an eternal universe, that the primal titans were forces of nature that preexisted everything else including the gods and men.  In other words, matter came first, mind came second.  Modern atheistic thinking repeated this model with steady state theories of eternal universes without beginning or end.  But when the universe was found to be expanding, suddenly Moses, a Bronze Age nomad turns out to be the only ancient who got his cosmology right:  “in the beginning”.

In fact, here are five truths that come out of the creation “myth” of Genesis One if you look beyond the “literal” level.  Each of these revelations disagreed with pagan mythology and modern cosmology until Einstein, and yet now are all considered unchallengeable facts:
  1. The universe has not always existed but began at a finite point in time. 
  2. The universe began in an explosion of light
  3. The universe evolved from chaos, emptiness and formlessness to order, filling, and form. 
  4. The unfolding of creation did not happen all at once, but gradually over time
  5. Youngest of all creatures on earth is mankind who is made, not out of nothing, but out of preexisting material, all of which can be found in the earth itself (dust).

This is uncanny!  Mythical?  Sure.  Untrue?  Nope.

Then we get to Adam and Eve.  Here again, the fact that they are made “from the dust” can be an open door to harmonize the evolutionary picture with Genesis if we think that’s where the evidence points.  How exactly did God “form” them from the dust?  Genesis doesn’t say, so we’re free to investigate that problem and suggest theories.  Christians are deeply divided as to the “how”.  Some will insist we need two persons made without preexisting forms.  Some suggest Adam and Eve (literally "man" and "mother") could be titles for a group of individuals set apart somehow from the rest of the animal kingdom.  If we turn to science, the idea of a two person “bottle neck” in human history is debated based on modern genetics, but science hasn't ruled it out either..

But why even bother to try to prove Adam and Eve might be historically plausible?  What’s really at stake in the Adam and Eve story?  Well, there is at least a couple of very important things theologically at stake that matters for the whole Christian story, without which Jesus' work on the cross just doesn’t make sense.  So what are those indispensable parts of this story to Christianity and therefore to you if you become a Christian?

Simply this: Man, as God made him, was completely good and completely happy, but he disobeyed God and became what we now see.  A creature in need of redemption, forgiveness, and restoration back to his creation design.  That is a bare minimum of what we must believe to be true about Genesis or else Jesus is out of a job.

Now, many people think even that simple premise is proved false by modern science.  They take Darwinism to imply that a “Fall” is the opposite of what science allows.  That rather than fall from a primeval state of virtue and happiness, people have slowly risen from brutality and savagery.

At this point, I would simply point you to CS Lewis' Problem of Pain where he offers up a very convincing harmony between Darwin’s account of the rise of mankind, and the Bible’s account of the fall of mankind.  Significantly, what he rejects about Darwin is Darwin's "unguided" philosophical underlay.  Common ancestry, change over time, preexisting hominid forms?  To Lewis, none of those things refuted the fact of creation, or the discontinuity of people with the rest of the animal kingdom, nor an actual, historical fall from harmony into sin.

I'll include a link where you can read this below.  Start reading the chapter “The Fall” on page 41, but jump to his Creation Myth on page 46.  He begins with: “For long centuries God perfected the animal form which was to become the vehicle of humanity and the image of Himself…”

I think his is a legit way Christians can read Genesis in view of natural history, a true creation myth.  Along with Lewis, I invite you to read the two books of the Word and the World honestly, with the assumption the same Author has written both.  If they seem to be in conflict, it's not because one is telling us lies, it's because we are reading one or both of them wrongly. 

Regarding the Bible and Geocentrism, yes, there are suggestions of this in the Bible, like the language about the sun rising and setting, and about the earth being “laid upon unmovable foundations”.  No Christian today thinks this language contradicts modern astronomy – because no Christian takes those passages literally.  Just as we never took “God will hide you under his wings” to mean that God actually has literal wings (Ps 17:8). 

Obviously at the time of Copernicus, those verses were cited as proof texts of geocentrism.  But the irony is that the Church believed it not so much because the Bible overtly teaches it, but because Greek philosophers – whom they admired – did!  Ironically, while finding passages to confirm the science of the time, they completely ignored several prescient passages that suggested heliocentrism:  Isa 40:22 and Job 26:7.

This old controversy speaks volumes to us about how to handle the new controversy about the days of creation.  It’s OK that natural science gives us insight to modify how to understand certain Bible passages – provided we understand that science’s readings are provisional and also subject to philosophical bias.   So just as we should avoid knee jerk rejections of the Bible based on provisional scientific theories, we should also avoid tying the Bible’s statements about creation too strongly to any scientific theory (which would include Flood Geology and Darwin's insistence that biology develops solely by mutation/selection).

Finally how to read Noah’s ark… For Christians to reject this as in any way historical puts severe strains on the reliability and authority of any part of the Old Testament which Jesus endorsed.  So I think we have to approach it as historical by default, since it is clearly not meant to be mythical in the “it’s just a story” sense.  And it's also not offered as a parable or symbol of anything.  

However, its language can be understood to be hyperbolic.  The Bible often uses "the whole earth" to mean, "alot, but not necessarily the whole."  So we don’t have to believe that the flood was global.  There is evidence against a global flood that makes the story hard to accept.  But, there is actually key evidence that would lend credence to a formative, catastrophic flood event in the Ancient Near East, which may have seeded the flood legends carried literally around the world.  Also, at roughly the right time-frame, there’s geological evidence for a great Mesopotamian flood.  

So, good bible study allows us to identify hyperbole and metaphor, and then we don't have to be resistant to legit scientific insights.  But also, we don't have to reject the fundamental truth claims either, which are critical to the Christian worldview being coherent and being true.

Did Eve Have to Leave The Garden with Adam Or Could She Stay?


QUESTION: Did Eve have to leave the garden when Adam was kicked out? Did she have the option to stay? Or did God spell out that she would go with her husband because her desire would be for him?  Also the question has come up....was she only deceived by the serpent (Satan)? Or did Adam play a part in deceiving her as well?


RESPONSE:  It's clear that Eve left the Garden with Adam. The very next verse after the banishment, they are together forming a family (4:1). The Bible never says Eve was forced out, but it's reasonable that they are both included in the banishment.  There's no good reason to think she either had the opportunity to stay or wasn't indicated in the same banishment verses with Adam (Gen 3:22&24).
This is made clear from the fact that both Adam and Eve are cursed for sin and God makes them both skin coverings (- they both carry shame which God covers by sacrifice, presaging the grace of the cross). So she goes with him, not because she freely chooses to go with him, but because she shares equally with Adam in the guilt that forced them from Paradise.
Adam never decieved Eve.  However, much has been made of the fact that in Genesis 3:6 she gives fruit to Adam who "was with her". If he was right there, why isn't he protecting her? Why is he not clarifying God's command for her? This is a real failure of his role as one-flesh mate, and his role to be her source as "head", but it's not active deception.

Thursday, May 10, 2018

Are Mormons Christians?


QUESTION:  I really enjoy watching Glenn Beck, and a while back he was talking about different faiths an he made a comment about how people probably don’t look at him as a real Christian because of his Mormon faith. He made a point in the middle of his political segment to point out that he personally was saved by the grace of Jesus Christ atoning for his personal sins.  Mormons do have different beliefs that most Christians don’t believe. But I have a hard time seeing a man who is by far a better man than I, and has asked Christ to come into his life and forgive him of his sins being a “non Christian” and I personally see him as being a part of God’s family.  I don’t understand why people believe him to be more wicked then them. Your thoughts.

ANSWER:  Your question is simple, are Mormons, Christians?  That’s not an easy question to answer, and I’ll dive into it below.  But first, it's helpful to clarify the biblical definition of "Christian".  You’re speaking directly to that definition, when you talk about being saved by the grace of Jesus Christ and faith in Him.  

However, when dealing with Glenn in particular, you move quickly to discussing his moral achievements - several times in fact.  You say he’s “far better man than you” and that some think he can’t be a Christian because he’s “more wicked than them.”  When we discuss biblical Christianity, true Christians are those who are saved, not because of good works, or lack of wickedness on their part, but only through the merits of Jesus Christ.  (Acts 15:11)

This merit is imputed to the believer who by faith and repentance has welcomed this saving work, and as a result has been washed, forgiven, set free and filled with God’s Spirit to walk in newness of life. (Rom 3:21, 22)

So Glenn being a decent man is not really the issue.  We mustn’t judge Glenn’s salvation (or anyone else’s) based on his good works or lack thereof.  They may or may not be an indication of new birth.  A man may be unsaved, though he does many good works, and a man may be among the saved (a true Christian) even if he has done many bad works.  A man may even confess Christ verbally and not be saved (Matt 7:21-23).  Jesus said, on the day of Judgment, there will be surprises (Matt 21:28-32).

Now, some would like to make this simple and categorically deny that any Mormon can be a true Christian.  Why?  Because Mormons use the same words as Christians but often mean different things.  Who is Jesus to them?  And what is Salvation to them?  Some would immediately say that once you understand what a Mormon means by Jesus (not the Unique Son) and Salvation (not by grace alone), it settles the question – the Mormon is not saved.  

I don't think it's that simple.

We all walk around with errors in our theological knowledge.  If I am mistaken on the exact formulation of the two natures of Jesus, am I worshiping the wrong God?  Am I lost?  If God is open to the future, but I believe in a fatalistic God behind the universe, am I lost?  I don’t think so.  This is not to say that what we believe doesn’t matter.  I’m saying that among the lot of us who don’t have all our beliefs correct (that's 100%!), there are two categories:  

There is the person whose untrue beliefs are a matter of ignorance that is gradually being dispelled on issues not central to his response to the offer of God’s grace.  In the other category are people whose untrue beliefs are a matter of deliberate suppression of the truth, or deceptions believed about very core Truths regarding himself or God that are needed for them to be reconciled.  The person in the former box is saved and the one in the latter is not, but neither have all their doctrine straight.

When in conflict with another human, for example, there are many things the two of us believe that may conflict but none of those things preclude us from reconciling.  Yet if we disagree on certain matters of the heart between us, or disagree about the severity of the offense, or on the standards that were violated, or on the right path forward, or if we disagree on purity of motives in the other, we cannot reconcile.  

So, with two categories of people who hold false beliefs, we are not great judges of which category a heart may be in at any given moment. Especially when judging is dependent on words people have in their heads that may carry vastly different meanings.  God knows the heart and whether false beliefs constitute rejection of salvation or (like with Apollos) areas of ignorance in a true believer needing correction.

I know a fine Christian teacher and apologist who has worked with many Mormons who are sold out to the Jesus of the New Testament and who will say they are trusting in His Grace and His shed blood to be saved.  Now, if we really make them describe what they mean by all these things, some will go outside of biblical Christian teaching.  For many, their practical works-based program is a fundamental denial of the gospel of grace that we believe is at the center of what it means to be a true Christian (see Eph 2:7-10).

But for other devout Mormons, their day-to-day experiential walk with the Lord really lines up with Biblical Christianity – more than some Evangelicals would like to admit.  I don't fully know what to do with that, but my tendency is to give their devotion to Jesus the benefit of the doubt.

Now, this does not apply to all Latter Day Saints – my friend would say, in his experience, "only to a handful".  Unfortunately, the Mormons I meet are explicitly trusting in their Church and their good works to prepare them for life as a divine being.  This is the official doctrine of the church, it’s polytheism, and it’s a serious diversion from the Christian faith and if believed, it’s no different than being a Muslim or any other kind of moralist.  This is not Christianity.

And this doesn’t begin to dive into the LDS stance on truth in general which I would describe as "elitist" and "closed to critical inquiry".  Elitist because the official stance of Joseph Smith (his very first revelation) is that all other Christian sects are an abomination to God.  Closed to critical inquiry because they refuse to acknowledge how the central historical tenant of The Book of Mormon (that native Americans are actually emigrated Semites from the Ancient Near East) has been repeatedly refuted by sound and unbiased scholarship, putting all of Joseph Smith’s prophetic work in question.

So with regards to Glenn Beck, who knows where he might fall on all this.  His comments about trusting in the finished work of Jesus and his grace are encouraging.  We can give that the benefit of the doubt, because it’s God’s job to judge his heart.  We however, are called to break down proud arguments that set themselves up against the knowledge of God and part of that calling is to resist perversions of true faith that may look similar but are in reality way off.  And wouldn’t Satan want some of his diversions to look quite similar to the truth, to be the more powerful delusion? (2 Cor 11:14,15)  Of course. 

So where a LD Saint explicitly says:  “I’m trusting in my tithing to the Temple and my good works and my church to save me, and by 'save' I mean, I will be a god someday and populate my own planet in the celestial heavens” we know we're dealing with a non-Christian.  And as with all outsiders to faith, we should be ready to correct their misunderstandings with Truth and demonstrate in love the full freedom of the biblical Gospel.  Where a person says, “I’m saved by the atoning blood of Jesus Christ”, and you don't know whether that's a true-hearted commitment of faith in Jesus as revealed in the Scripture and the Creeds?  We can and should suspend judgment.